Interview by Barbie. Only minor edits were made by KHT. Republished with permission from OU Music.
What led you to first get involved in the music industry?
This is a complicated question for me. I am not sure I am really involved in the music industry. You know? There’s a song by an Argentine singer called Fito Páez called “Al Lado Del Camino” . Its title literally translates to “On the side of the road”. This speaks to me a lot. I never wanted to be in an Industry.
I never wanted to be “a part of the Music Industry” . Industries, professionals, do things for profit. That’s the goal. I always questioned the validity of the profit motive in the Arts. At the core of our way of life is the idea that everything we do, we do it for money or fame.
Well, I ask myself: If Van Gogh followed money and fame, would he have painted the way he did? If Mozart followed money, would he have fought the Archbishop of Salzburg? Would he have composed as he did? If Charlie Parker looked for profit and stayed doing big band Swing music for people to dance, would he have developed Bebop? If Astor Piazzolla wanted money and fame, wouldn’t he have stayed in the big Tango orchestras, instead of going his own way and revolutionizing our music forever? I mean, the examples are endless.
My guess is that if we leave it up to market forces and to the “Music Industry”, we wouldn’t have much of the culture that we humans value so much all over the world.
And unfortunately we need to keep in mind that time is perceived linearly, which means it is impossible to have two goals at the same time. First one thing, then the other. So if you wanna do good music, then that’s your goal, and if money comes, good, if not, doesn’t really matter. But, if you care about money and fame, then that’s your goal, and music will come second. There’s no two ways about it.
In fact, I don’t think that you can actually make an industry out of Music, out of Art. Why do I say this? Because the most profound music, the one that has left a mark on the world for centuries, has never been done as a “product” to be bought and sold.
Think about it. From Bach to Charlie Parker or John Coltrane, from Horacio Salgan to Chucho Valdés, from Fela Kuti to Björk, Bob Marley to Ruben Rada, in all of those cases, they were making Art, trying to represent and express themselves.
In any of those cases, commercial success was never the goal. Of course some of those artists benefited from it, but it was a side effect, never the point. All those huge names I mentioned before had sponsors in one way or the other.
Now let’s get into Pop, which supposedly is as industrial as a washing machine or a hamburger. Not even classic Pop Artists like Elvis, The Beatles, James Brown, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Prince, or modern ones like Adele, Billie Eilish, Kendrick Lamar, etc., were trying to be part of the music industry at the beginning of their careers.
In fact, usually when the music industry got really involved in their lives, and those artists really became a “product”, most of them lost the passion for music and had to get out of it to “find themselves again”, right?
“Musicians, artists in general, they are outside of society, and function as the voice of its subconscious. That’s why being on the side of the road watching the cars go by full speed in every direction is a good place to be, to make music. Of course, we must keep the balance between eating, having a roof over your head, and doing what one wants, but it seems to me that the best option is not getting too much involved in anything other than the craft of making music. ”
Ohh, and if the question is how did I start playing, then the answer is that I don’t really remember. I started to make noise at around 2 years old with pots and pans, and had my first little Casio keyboard at 4 or 5, and I kept it until 12 or so, when I started playing in a Blues Band. And then everything else came about from there.
Have you had any particularly unforgettable experiences along the way?
Every experience leaves a mark. Recently, having a full house of people at the Weiwuying Music Hall in Kaohsiung that came to listen to my Tango band play our own crazy music during the Weiwuying Jazz Fest 2026 was very special. A while back, playing for almost 20,000 people on the outdoor stage at the National Concert Hall Jazz Festival in 2024 with a super band with musicians from different backgrounds, mixing Central American Black Roots, with Taiwanese Aboriginals and one of my favorite Taiwanese indie bands, Robot Swing.
If I’m talking about my time as music director and band leader, all the things we did with ABAO and Nanguaq I will carry in my heart forever. I made all the arrangements and played piano for their first completely acoustic show at Weiwuying that was completely full to the brim with people, on January 1st 2026. Another huge one was going with them to play at the Paris Olympics in 2024. Also being a part of the same team when ABAO became the first Taiwanese artist to perform at a festival in Africa, the Bushfire Festival in Eswatini in 2025.
We also went to Central Park in NYC in August 2025 for the Taiwanese Waves fest over there. Related to the Aboriginal Community of Taiwan, but not only with ABAO and Nanguaq; I have been a part of the Pasiwali music festival for so many years, both as a judge and as a musician. I will always treasure those memories.
If I go back in time a bit, the time I met Stevie Wonder, Victor Wooten, and so many others, and also got the opportunity to jam Actual Proof with Mono Neon and to play with George Garzone and Gerald Albright and so many other greats during my visits to the NAMM show from 2014 to 2017 was awesome too. Touring so many years in Japan and being the closing act at the Ikebukuro Jazz Fest in 2016 was also really an insane experience.
Later, I became a Dad and wanted to be there for my family, so I focused mostly on being at home every night, so my most memorable experiences might have been playing music for my son and my wife daily. And right about now, a couple of weeks ago, I just delivered the masters of what I feel is the best work I’ve ever done with a Taiwanese singer so far since I arrived here 15 years ago, which is the album Utopia of Goats and Grass for He Yun-na and He Chih-jung. 19 songs of what I think is pure magic. They are both amazing, and I will never ever forget this process nor this music.
Success is never accidental—how have your achievements been built and accumulated along the way?
I disagree with this question, actually. Luck is a huge percentage of people’s lives. Nobody chooses their parents, the place they are born, the language they speak, their looks, the food they eat as kids, the money their family has, the school they go to (till university, maybe), or whether there are good instruments at home or not. We must acknowledge that so many things are really just a matter of luck. Of course, the other side of the coin is that one needs to help luck with effort, with study, hours and hours of being with the craft, trying to improve our ability, our technique and knowledge, in order to express ourselves better. But for example, if Tu Hui-yuan didn’t go into that club where I was playing, I wouldn’t be here answering this now. I had nothing to do with it.
I mean, going back to what I said before, we all agree nowadays that Vincent Van Gogh was a pretty awesome painter, right? But from what we know, probably he died feeling his paintings sucked. So, time and place, i.e., luck, play a big part in our lives. And regarding achievements, I don’t really know how. What I do know is that I don’t believe in “practice” nor “competition”. They never bring out the best in people. Playing, using the passion that comes from love as the energy behind the time we put in improving our craft, that’s the only thing that really works.
“Music, for me, is about flow, about being loose. Relaxing your arms helps you play faster, not being stronger and rigid. The more relaxed and open one can be, the better the music. So I hope people don’t force their children, nor themselves, to “be the best”. There’s no best. ”
There are different voices sharing their stories, people with more or less technique, but music is not a sport; nobody wins. Nobody can “win” at music. Who’s better, 9m88, Calle 13, Hermeto Pascoal, Mos Def, Paul McCartney or Trilok Gurtu? You might know everything about Bebop and know absolutely nothing about Zamba or Indian Ragas. And regarding achievements, I don’t really know how. What I do know, is that I don’t believe in neither in “practice” nor “competition”. They never bring out the best in people. Playing, using the passion that comes from love as the energy behind the time we put in improving our craft- that’s the only thing that really works.
“It never ends, and that’s the beauty of it.”
So I would say that whatever achievements I have, they sort of built themselves. I just followed the flow of where my intuition led me; moving forward, pushed by love, I ended up putting many hours into it without even realizing what I was doing. The key to it all for me was to be aware of what’s going on inside me and not bullshit myself. Sincerity in the mirror. I always tried my best not to lie to myself about what I really liked, being aware of not confusing myself with what other people like or admire. If both connect, good, but if not, I’d rather flow towards my own intuition. And if my tastes are considered cheesy or uncool, so be it. I am not sure, but I think that it was Bruce Lee in a black-and-white interview who said that Martial Art, and all Art, eventually, is a road to oneself. I like that.
“I do believe that only by knowing and accepting oneself and one’s own life story is that we can really connect with everyone else around us. And in the end, truly being able to connect with other human beings no matter where they are from is the biggest achievement. ”
What are your thoughts on the current state of the industry and your expectations for the future?
I don’t know if it is ok for me to talk about something that I don’t think should exist. But I am being asked, so here it is. In the end, doing anything for profit kills the quality of whatever it is being done. For a short period might be good, but the profit motive is never sustainable because profit is measured in numbers, which are infinite, right? But we all know that our time on Earth and the materials of our planet are not infinite. Sadly, I feel that in the past 250 or so years, the idea of growth became synonymous with the idea of good.
The more fans you have, the better you are.
The more albums you sell, the better your music is.
The more shows you play, the better your performance must be.
The more technique you have, the better musician you are.
But is it?
I mean, Cancer grows indefinitely until it kills its host, thus killing itself. And that’s what I think happened here. The Music Industry grew a lot, right? It grew all the way to making music almost completely free, thus killing itself. The Music Industry benefited from profit maximization. It has squeezed as much as possible from musicians, singers, and audiences alike, until there was nothing left to squeeze. And that’s only looking at the “selling” aspect.
From the point of view of “production”, also the Music Industry killed itself. Producing cheap music in huge quantities transformed mainstream music into such a formulaic “Art” form that a machine can learn all the music we made so far and be almost as good (if not better in some cases) as a modern music producer. It’s been a long time since anyone took real creative risks in the music industry.
Let’s think about it for a moment. As a thought experiment, imagine if we could bring the AI music generation to 1982. Let’s say we have an AI that gathered all the data from all the music that existed before November of 1982. Now I ask: Do you think that AI itself could come up with anything like the album“Thriller”? It doesn’t seem likely. Because the music in “Thriller”broke previous forms, and for that you need to “think outside the box”. What you need is a producer and a team, but not any team. That team that specifically combined to make it happen. So you need Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones and all the rest of the people that made it happen. And you also need a label that takes the risk of releasing something that hasn’t been proven before.
Now, most of the music that is produced could actually be created by a machine that has zero creativity. In fact, many music producers worldwide use it to create new music that already sounds like things we heard before. That’s what happened with the music industry. It died, and now it is a zombie that’s so lame, it ain’t even suitable for a scary movie.
Of course, I am talking about mainstream Pop music. On the Indie scenes worldwide, something completely different is happening, and still there are a lot of people who listen and care about music, who take time to learn and master a craft, and take risks. But they are independent, so also On the Side of the Road, as we talked about before. In the end, hopefully, the mainstream Pop Music Industry will cease to exist, which I see as a good thing. People who care about music will have their own “music bubbles” and support the artist they like, who will never be super rich and famous as they used to be between the 80s and now, but they will have a life. In fact, regarding livelihood, the focus will be solely on live shows, whether in a venue or online, using maybe AR or VR of sorts.
Also, there will be a focus on organic human education, where teachers will focus on issues such as meaning and creativity, and AI will probably handle the education of the more logical and technical aspects of music. Music, same as Math or the Spanish language, won’t disappear. It’ll change, as it is changing. But I definitely think the age of worldwide superstars known by all is completely over.
What advice would you give to those who want to enter the music industry?
The idea of giving advice is tricky. Everyone’s lives are so different that rarely what applies in one case will apply in others. What I can say is this: If you feel a fire inside you, if you feel love, passion, and if you happen to be completely certain about what brings you that fire, then please, treasure that feeling.
“ If you feel a fire inside you, if you feel love, passion, and if you happen to be completely certain about what brings you that fire, then please, treasure that feeling. ”
After living in the world for 44 years, I am starting to realize that it is something very rare to feel like that. And if that thing that brings you fire, that fills you with passion and love happens to be music, then go for it. I mean, what else is there? What’s the point of being alive knowing that you’ll die but having the constant anxiety in the back of your head of not knowing when not to feel love and share it with others that are in the exact same situation as you? Then what? Well, learn the craft and learn yourself.
Never lose perspective that music is about communication. If you are sincere with yourself, don’t be afraid to bring what you find inside you, turn it into a song, and share it with everyone else around you. Having a good technique is important, but pursue that technique as much as you need it in order to express yourself better. Never forget that technique is just a tool. And don’t accumulate anything for the sake of accumulation, cause in the end it’s the weight that sinks you. Listen to the music that makes you feel that fire and try your best to master that style or that instrument first; explore that as much as possible. Don’t let yourself be intimidated by what others think is “good music” or “cool” or “fashionable”. There’s a reason why you like so much whatever it is that you like so much. Find out what that is.
Naturally, you’ll move away and come back to it. But that thing you love and gives you fire will be your anchor, the place where you can always come back to whenever you feel lost. Treasure your own tastes. Develop them. Listen to the musicians you already like, and listen also to what they like. Not necessarily you’ll love what they love, but it is a good way to slowly start opening up branches in your own tree of musical knowledge.
Play in bands with people. Never stay alone in a room for a long time. Animals in the zoo are always with other animals, even lizards and snakes. Any animal alone dies quickly. And we are all animals, we are a part of nature. So look to connect with other people. Start bands, many bands. Play with many bands.
If you like social media, use it. If not, don’t. Be careful of trends. If you push yourself to do things to get followers but you don’t like, love, nor respect the things you do, then every single follower you accumulate is another weight you add on the chain you put yourself around your own neck. Remember, if growth is organic, things will necessarily reach a balance on their own. Once the balance is reached, things might not grow anymore, like some people are 1,90 and I am 1,71. But that’s nature.
Respect that balance, because it will be sustainable in the long run. If, on the other hand, your growth in life, in your career, and in your social media is inorganic, it might get out of control. And you know what they call things that grow out of control? Well…. Cancer (as we said before). There’s a reason why these things that spread fast online are called “viral”. Do you wanna be a virus? Would you wanna be COVID-19? lol. Anyways… that’s my best shot at giving advice. Basically, don’t get into the music industry.
How do you usually draw inspiration from everyday life?
Many things are happening around us all the time, so just let life get into you. As Keith Jarrett said once, “music cannot come from music”. Meaning, read as many books as possible, go to the theater, go to see an art exhibition, a dance performance, go yourself dancing, talk to your neighbors, to the people who clean the MRT, to the cashier at a convenience store, to the bus driver, to the taxi driver, keep the antenna open and pointing upwards.
There’s music hidden in every corner of every street of every city everywhere in the world.
There’s music hidden in every forest, in every beach, in every mountain, in the eyes of your mom, of your dad, of your siblings, of your kids,
There’s music hidden in the sunlight, in the rain, in the rumble of the clouds right before rain starts to fall, in the dirt under your bed; there’s a song for sure.
There’s music everywhere.
Basically, the problem is the opposite.
How to process so much music all around me in such a short life.
What are your upcoming plans?
I’ve been practicing for the past three years, and I took some classical piano lessons because I wanna record a Piano Solo album. This is something very hard for me cause I had a real piano for the first time to practice every day at the age of 30 in Taiwan. Before that, I only played Keyboards, so my finger technique and my dynamics were (still are)quite poor. But I’ve been following that passion and trying my best to improve, and I think I am ready to try to do my first Piano Solo album. I wanna do it without punching in any section. Playing every song from top to bottom. No edits. So let’s see what happens. When it is done, you’ll know for sure!
